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Post by 2008worldchamps on Oct 1, 2011 21:06:24 GMT -5
Current rule reads:
A "Prospect" shall include any player who has not "graduated" to the MLB that has been eligible for at least one MLB draft.
We propose to change it to read:
A "Prospect" shall include any player who has not "graduated" to the MLB and who is currently playing on a professional baseball team, which includes all MLB minor league affiliates and foreign leagues but does not include High School and the NCAA.
The intention of the clarification is to allow the drafting of foreign players (Japan, Cuba, Dominican, etc.) while banning the drafting of High School and College players. Fire away with your thoughts!
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Post by Fenway Faithful on Oct 2, 2011 7:20:17 GMT -5
Not a fan. Right now we have a place to verify all minor league players (MILB.com). Where is the world are we going to be able to verify these foreign players (no pun intended)?
Why is this being brought up? Is there really a pool of players we'd all be jumping on right now? I know there are a few, but it's usually only a matter of time before they are signed by a MLB team, which then that player would be eligible to be drafted the next year anyway.
Just not sure I see a real purpose to this.
*my 2 pennies
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Post by Jim W. (Springfield Isotopes) on Oct 2, 2011 18:29:56 GMT -5
It's being brought up because as the rule is written right now, which makes "any player that has been eligible for at least one MLB Draft" farm eligible, there are some problems, at least in my mind. IN order to be eligible for the draft a player must: - Be a resident of the United States, Canada, or a U.S. territory such as Puerto Rico. Players from other countries are not subject to the draft, and can be signed by any team (unless they are current members of college teams in the aforementioned countries).
- Have never signed a major or minor league contract.
- High school players are eligible only after graduation, and if they have not attended college.
- Players at four-year colleges are eligible after completing their junior years, or after their 21st birthdays.
- Junior and community college players are eligible to be drafted at any time.
It seemed to me that for our purposes, the "any player that has been eligible for at least one MLB Draft" would include anybody with a high school diploma. It would also allow the drafting of NCAA players that are without MLB affiliation directly out of college. I didn't a situation where we were drafting college freshman who wouldn't even be drafted until he graduated, and decided that a clarification was necessary. With regards to foreign players, this certainly isn't something I'm adamant about, and really has to do with one player - Yu Darvish. This is a highly skilled Japanese SP who is as highly touted a MLB prospect as there is. If an owner wants to stick him on his farm with the hope that he'll eventually come to America, should he be able to? I'm not entirely sure, but figured that we'd say yes and have the discussion. A part of me says whys shouldn't I be able to draft Japanese and Cuban professionals if I want to take the chance? Another part says that we should just wait until they do make the jump to the majors and let them be the gems of the waiver draft. Which is right? I don't know, but if we didn't include them in the rule nobody would have brought up an objection, and nobody would be talking about it, lol. As far as being able to verify the players: Nippon Baseball League (Japan) Baseball Federation of Cuba (Cuba - duh, lol) Nicaraguan Professional Baseball League (Nicaragua) I don't feel like getting the sites for all of the Independent leagues, but my point is that the information's out there.
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Post by Chippy's Monkeys on Oct 5, 2011 15:50:57 GMT -5
Also not really a fan. I think the player should be the property of a MLB organization before we can draft them. As stated, we could draft a 16 year old from the Dominican for example.
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Post by broadstreetbomberz on Oct 5, 2011 16:45:17 GMT -5
Agreed with randy and dave
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Oct 6, 2011 1:42:08 GMT -5
Ok. If we set an age requirement to to draft eligible, say 18, would this satisfy your concern?
This is true. But if I am a team who is 3 years away from competing, why shouldn't I be allowed to draft accordingly? If instead of trying to draft as many MLB ready prospects as possible I decide to draft long term, shouldn't that be up to me? Also, on the other hand. If I am competing now and I have a roster that is pretty stacked where my farm players would have no spot and thus I would be forced to trade them, shouldn't I have the option of drafting further down the line in an attempt to bolster my farm with players that I might need say 3-4 years from now?
In short, I guess I'm asking what the harm in allowing it is? I understand we want teams to be as competitive as possible, but shouldn't teams have the right to build their team the way they see fit?
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Post by Jim W. (Springfield Isotopes) on Oct 6, 2011 3:19:59 GMT -5
I agree that drafting 16 year olds is crazy, and I certainly don't want that. Something as simple as a "must be 18 or older" bit solves that though.
Like I said before, I don't feel very strongly one way or the other about this, but I am curious to understand why you don't want Japanese, Cuban, and other foreign players to be draft eligible. There isn't a huge list of in demand foreign prospects or anything (except maybe the aforementioned Yu Darvish), but I don't think that alone is reason to exclude them. Assuming we eliminate the possibility of drafting players that are under 18 from foreign clubs, why shouldn't I be allowed to draft a 20 something player from the Nippon league? What is it about a 21 year old Japanese player that makes him less of an MLB prospect than a 21 year old minor leaguer? Is it simply MLB affiliation? If I'm willing to put in the time to research some young Cuban superstar that I think will play in the MLB eventually, why shouldn't I be allowed to draft him before he signs with a MLB team?
Again, this isn't me giving you guys the hard sell or anything, I'm just very interested in what you have to say about it.
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Post by Fenway Faithful on Oct 6, 2011 11:02:13 GMT -5
Well now hold on, when a MLB team signs a player at 16 or 17 years old, he's eligible for our draft. The key is that he is property of a major league team. This is a fantasy league rooted in the Major League Baseball system. We base many of our rules, our regulations and our player pool based on what is available within the context of Major League Baseball and their minor league affiliates.
Look, not many of us have the extra time on our hands to be investigating the inner depths of every teams minor league system, let alone the leagues across the world. Some people do, and that's great but that's not the norm.
What will come from this is an unending list of leagues and sources for players to be drafted from which in turn will be a nightmare to keep track of. This isn't just the few league mentioned before, but you are talking about the independent leagues here in the US, Japan, Canada, Mexico, Korea, Cuba, China...the list goes on and on. What about the guys who aren't technically playing on a team, but aren't amateurs?
Let's keep this league within the scope of MLB and the players whose rights are owned by one of the 32 teams. It's complex enough to keep track of who's out there and who's rising and falling in the prospect rankings. When an international phenom is legit, he'll be signed by a MLB team, in which would make him available to the lesser teams in our league...which is part of why we have a draft, to help the lesser teams restock with better prospects.
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Post by hungoverheroes on Oct 6, 2011 20:19:06 GMT -5
as a manager who tries to keep up with all this stuff, if there is a foreign player out there, and you are smart enough to know about him, good one ya, beat me to him and draft him. I dont have the resources to even find out who he is. But in the end i agree with fenways last post, let keep it a little more simple. some of the rules are for the four managers that have the time / smarts to do it.
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Post by Jim W. (Springfield Isotopes) on Oct 10, 2011 5:25:13 GMT -5
Well now hold on, when a MLB team signs a player at 16 or 17 years old, he's eligible for our draft. Just to be clear, the "must be 18" thing was in respect to foreign players, and was mostly just me trying to determine what it was that rubbed everybody the wrong way about drafting foreign prospects. If it was only the possibility of drafting under aged players then that was something I felt we could work around. Look, not many of us have the extra time on our hands to be investigating the inner depths of every teams minor league system, let alone the leagues across the world. Some people do, and that's great but that's not the norm. I'm pretty sure a 16 team league with 15 player farm tams isn't "the norm" either. I also don't buy into the argument that it's unfairly favoring owners with more time and/or knowledge. It's fantasy baseball, and owners with more time/knowledge will ALWAYS have an advantage. What will come from this is an unending list of leagues and sources for players to be drafted from which in turn will be a nightmare to keep track of. This isn't just the few league mentioned before, but you are talking about the independent leagues here in the US, Japan, Canada, Mexico, Korea, Cuba, China...the list goes on and on. What about the guys who aren't technically playing on a team, but aren't amateurs? This is a very fair point, and so far is the only real reason I see for excluding foreign players. Like I've said from the start, I'm fine with the idea of excluding foreigners, I was just looking for a better reason than "I don't like the idea." I still want to change the language of the rule so that we can't draft college players before they're drafted by MLB teams. something like: A "Prospect" shall include any player who has not "graduated" to the MLB and who is currently playing on a professional baseball team, which includes all MLB minor league affiliates and foreign leagues but does not include High School and the NCAA.
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Post by Fenway Faithful on Oct 10, 2011 9:21:52 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure a 16 team league with 15 player farm tams isn't "the norm" either. I also don't buy into the argument that it's unfairly favoring owners with more time and/or knowledge. It's fantasy baseball, and owners with more time/knowledge will ALWAYS have an advantage. Fair statement and one I think most would agree to. But it is a fair and valid point to say that expanding the pool of players, which would require more time and energy would only favor those teams with said time and energy. Most joined the league with the knowledge that it was a MLB league, not an international league and with that assume the "risk" of having inferior mlb or milb teams based on lack of mlb knowledge. I'm speculating here, but I wonder how many would have said no thanks to joining from the beginning if they knew they would be competing for international talent as well. All those words to say, adding international players would take up way more time and that is a VERY valid reason for folks to vote against this change in rule. A "Prospect" shall include any player who has not "graduated" to the MLB and who is currently playing on a professional baseball team, which includes all MLB minor league affiliates and foreign leagues but does not include High School and the NCAA. The point of rewording this rule is so no team can draft a college or high school player before they've been drafted. Something like " A "Prospect" shall include any player who is acquired via the MLB entry draft or free agency AND has signed a contract with a MLB affiliated team AND meets the requirements of a MLB rookie (less than 150 ABs/Less than 50 IP)." This eliminates high schoolers, college players, foreign as well as players drafted but didn't sign a contract and end up back in college or in the draft the following year.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2011 11:48:11 GMT -5
Agree with the consensus. Keep any minor league eligibility to persons already being drafted by an MLB team.
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Post by Fenway Faithful on Oct 10, 2011 13:04:01 GMT -5
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Oct 10, 2011 13:25:09 GMT -5
Ok, let me just weigh in one last time. I personally am in favor of allowing the drafting of foreign players. To my mind, it is just another option we can give to owners and I think options are good. However, I do not see it as something that should hold up a vote. It was just a thought me and Jim had. We would like to start closing this discussion and moving on to other rules. Make sure you vote in the poll section of the boards here fpbl.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=polls&action=display&thread=139
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Oct 10, 2011 13:41:20 GMT -5
Ok, I goofed. I accidentally deleted the poll with the vote. The only person's vote who was deleted was Randy's. Please re-vote. Sorry, my bad.
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Post by Fenway Faithful on Oct 10, 2011 13:58:06 GMT -5
Oh I get how this works.....the machine trying to hold the man down...."remove" my vote....a show of power? I will not be held down...I know my rights.....you will not be the boss of me!!!!!!! You will not hold the man down...FIGHT THE POWER....
or I'll just revote...whatever :-D
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Post by Jim W. (Springfield Isotopes) on Oct 10, 2011 14:02:57 GMT -5
Ok, I goofed. I accidentally deleted the poll with the vote. The only person's vote who was deleted was Randy's. Please re-vote. Sorry, my bad.
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Oct 10, 2011 14:17:37 GMT -5
Wow, that just warms my mid-atlantic, liberal elitist heart ;D And to Jim....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2011 19:25:13 GMT -5
Still don't see the poll, FYI - says the poll deleted still
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Oct 10, 2011 21:58:37 GMT -5
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