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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2011 11:25:34 GMT -5
Jhoulys Chacin, SP COL
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Post by MacGruber BOOM on Mar 19, 2011 14:02:59 GMT -5
Jhoulys Chacin is on Soviet's Farm club.
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Mar 19, 2011 16:04:08 GMT -5
Just got home a while ago and discussed it with Jim. Our stance is as follows:
while we try to make everybody aware of graduating prospects, it is ultimately the responsibility of the owners to know who is and is not going to be farm eligible for the upcoming season and to plan accordingly. Chacin has exceeded the IP limit and is therefore not farm eligible for the start of the 2011 season. Since he was not promoted by the start of the waiver draft he is eligible to be added in the waiver draft, which he was by Running Riot. I apologize for the error on my part and will try, as always, to make sure it doesn't happen in the future.
With that, The Stonecutters are on the clock
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Post by The Beanbaggers on Mar 19, 2011 16:29:57 GMT -5
I know you guys are just abiding by the rules. And in general, I totally agree with the responsibility of the owners to keep an eye on their rosters for IPs and ABs cap hits, but couldn't we at least give the Reds a lil heads up before ruling Chacin a FA. He obviously slipped by on accident. We're not a huge hurry, since we've got a couple weeks til the season begins. Can we at least give him an opportunity to correct his mistake?
Obviously its your guys call, but that's my 2 cents anyways...
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Post by Fenway Faithful on Mar 19, 2011 18:28:34 GMT -5
I'm gonna toss my 2 pennies in as well and make it 4 total cents with Mike. Having run the farm teams last year, I can totally relate to Ed and Jim's task of keeping everything up to date and monitoring all the players eligibility. That being said, the league for the most part relies on the updates to the farm teams by the commishes (or farm team admin). Accidents and oversights happen, since it's all a manual task and we need to allow for some human error. This was an oversight on many peoples part and at the end of the day, it's never been really clear as to who's responsibility it is to make sure the right players are called up. We've done that as "management" for the league since the farm teams were introduced. I agree it should be up to the teams to be responsible for who is/isn't on their farm teams, but in the end we also have to allow for mistakes to happen. It's expected when the commishes make a mistake that it be rectified but there isn't any sort of "punishment" (for lack of a better word). We all understand mistakes happen and we move on. The Reds should be allowed to fix that mistake (in my opinion). No offense to Running Riot...I'd have made the same selection and would probably want to keep that player...but if it were reversed, I'm sure we'd all hope we had a chance to fix that mistake ASAP. Good day
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Post by MacGruber BOOM on Mar 19, 2011 19:16:25 GMT -5
I'll toss in my four cents here as I have many my fair share of mistakes over the past two years. We have been consistent doling out "punishments" for the mistakes (or misinterpretations of the rules), and my team has taken its lumps as I learn the technicalities via the mistakes. In fact, I'm waiting for someone to tell me there is a rule that anyone named "Harper" in ineligible for this league. BUT since 8 teams didn't understand the rule and hence passed on a quality starter I do feel like we'd be punishing every team that passed on him, plus the Reds. I would say we all now understand what needs to be done on the farm teams and that this was the warning mistake.
I'm kidding abour the Harper thing, please don't take him away from me!!
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Post by Chippy's Monkeys on Mar 19, 2011 19:49:04 GMT -5
I think its about maintaining some integrity within the league. When you look at the farm team thread and it indicates that none of your players are ineligible, I would assume that in fact none of my players are ineligible. This isn't a criticism of Ed, in fact I know the level of work that goes into running a farm team and give Ed all the credit in the world for taking on the task. And I suppose we all know what happens when we "assume" but I think in order to be fair this is a mistake that was made.
For my 2 cents ( we are up to 10 cents if my math is correct, and for the record I think that is more than I have in my bank account) I also feel that when an oversight such as this is identified, the owner should receive some amount of time to rectify the situation. If after said amount of time (24 hrs would be reasonable) then the player could be added to the FA pool.
Although credit to Riot for catching this mistake but I just think it sends a very cut-throat message to screw over an owner in this manner without a chance to fix the oversight.
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Post by Jim W. (Springfield Isotopes) on Mar 19, 2011 23:48:45 GMT -5
After giving this issue a good deal of thought today, and after reading the opinions of Randy and Dave among others, I have decided to alter my earlier ruling and allow the reds to keep Chacin.
As Randy and Dave, as well as others, have pointed out, mistakes happen. In this particular instance the mistake was made by Ed and myself. Despite my opinion that owners should be responsible for knowing which players are and are not farm eligible, an opinion I still have, the fact that Chacin was not listed as graduated means that the Reds were at a disadvantage to the rest of the league through no fault of their own.
Another point to consider is that by listing Chacin as on the Red's farm not only did he believe he was still property of the Reds, but I'm sure some of the other owners who have already made selections in the waiver draft did as well. While I have to give Riot credit for being on the ball and noticing the Chacin oversight, allowing him to select him when the league resources list him as on somebody's farm seems wrong.
Finally, despite my desire to keep the draft going, and my hope that owners be as aware of their own teams as I am of mine, allowing these kind of small oversights to be forgiven is consistent with the way I have handled similar situations across all of my leagues, and considering this is a game that is supposed to be fun, giving people the benefit of the doubt is probably the right way to do business.
This one is on me, and the Reds shouldn't be punished for my screw up. For all of the above reasons I will allow him to promote Chacin. I will email Riot and he will be put back on the clock and given another full 12 hours to make another selection.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 1:52:19 GMT -5
I apologize to everyone that my lack of attention generated this discussion. It's inexcusable mistake made by me. I promise never repeat it in the future.
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Post by Chippy's Monkeys on Mar 20, 2011 8:26:49 GMT -5
Jim- You are exactly right, this is supposed to be fun. It's not much fun when you are put at a competitive disadvantage by losing a hell of a prospect because of an oversight. You feel cheated, and I would imagine question if you want to be part of such a league. And kudos to you for seeing that. I only hope that Riot is not too upset by this. Often times in life we are faced with decisions where there is no simple solution, someone is going to be unhappy with the decision we make no matter what we decide. All we can do is what we think is best for the overall good. I think for the league overall in order for us to continue to KEEP members we have to be able to consider things like this and be somewhat understanding. We already lose a couple of members every season. If we would operate this league where there is no forgiveness for people's busy schedules and innocent mistakes, why would anyone want to be a part of such a cut-throat league? Yes we have deadlines and expectations but we also need to be realistic. Lastly, I do think we need to consider a ban on anyone named Harper. Or we could ban anyone whose name rhymes with rice. Either way works for me.
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Mar 20, 2011 16:16:55 GMT -5
Moved all the discussion about this here to make the draft board a bit more orderly
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