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Post by hungoverheroes on Jan 30, 2014 9:36:07 GMT -5
I propose we postpone the draft by a week or so. There are many managers that would like to do some trades, including me. It is difficult to facilitate a trade when you cant see your team or the any others. As soon as ESPN completes its 2014 upgrade, we can access our teams, and maybe get a deal done. And start the draft. What do you think?
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Jan 30, 2014 16:03:12 GMT -5
I would love to, but here's why we can't.
As it sits we have the draft scheduled to start 2/8. It generally takes us anywhere from 3-4 weeks to complete the entry draft. That takes us right up to 3/8 when the Waiver draft is scheduled to begin. The first series in the MLB season is set to take place 3/22-3/23 in Sydney, Australia: Dodgers vs. D-backs with the rest of the league opening night being 3/30: Dodgers vs. Padres, and opening day being 3/31. Now that only gives us 23 days from the start of the waiver draft to opening day (assuming when we do the schedule here shortly that we schedule out the opening series and opening night) to get the waiver draft completed and have rosters finalized before week 1. So like I said before, I'd really love to push the Entry Draft back, but I don't think it is going to be feasible. I'm talking with Jim now on contingencies, and as soon as we come up with something I'll let everyone know. The main reason we waited until now to do the Entry Draft at all was because we were waiting for ESPN to do their maintenance (in the past they have done it in the beginning of January). Unfortunately Jim and I have no control over when/what ESPN does. It's one of the main reasons we do almost everything over here on proboards (if we still held our drafts on ESPN we'd really be screwed). You guys can still trade picks, prospects and LTIR players, you just can't trade active roster players.Like I said before, we still have over a week until the draft begins so no reason to panic yet. The best advice I can give is to go email each other your trade ideas, agree on whatever, and when ESPN comes back go ahead and do your trades. The good news is that generally, ESPN has been pretty quick in the past about getting their new year maintenance done. But if they are still down on 2/8, we will try to come up with something to allow/document trades. Sorry, ESPN sucks, I know. But we will find a way to work with you guys.
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Post by Fenway Faithful on Jan 30, 2014 16:12:32 GMT -5
Once ESPN opens back up, couldn't we hold both drafts concurrently?
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Jan 30, 2014 16:20:30 GMT -5
I'm already getting to the idea that we may have a little overlap, but I don't want to totally have them both going on at the same time. It could cause issues with players who are both Entry and Waiver Draft eligible (such as a guy like Darvish last season. I really don't want it to be a free for all on which guys get selected first in which draft ya know?
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Post by Fenway Faithful on Jan 30, 2014 16:29:53 GMT -5
technically, isn't a player like Tanaka only entry eligible, since he hasn't passed the IP threshold and unless he's on a MLB team (which right now he hasn't made a the MLB squad yet, granted we know he will, but still letter of the law here), he's not allowed on our roster?
So I'm saying, there isn't a player who is both Entry and Waiver eligible in all technicalities.
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Jan 30, 2014 16:38:05 GMT -5
Wrong. There is no IP threshold to be Waiver eligible. Technically every player is waiver eligible so long as that player does not reside on any FPBL roster, LTIR, Farm or Retirement Reserve. the only difference is that if you take a player in the Entry Draft (provided he's under the rookie threshold) he can be added to your farm but if the same player were taken in the Waiver Draft, that player is required to start the season on your active roster (and if the player does not make the MLB roster out of spring training and you drafted in in the Waiver Draft, you would be forced to cut him)
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Jan 30, 2014 16:40:37 GMT -5
Per the Wiaver Draft Rules located here waiver rules. Please note the bolded section;
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Post by Fenway Faithful on Jan 30, 2014 16:40:52 GMT -5
why would we allow a team to draft a prospect in the waiver draft? That doesn't make any sense at all. That's what the entry draft is for.
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Post by Fenway Faithful on Jan 30, 2014 16:45:22 GMT -5
No I get that, I helped write the rule...what I'm saying is, we need to think about clarifying that up. It makes no sense to allow a team to draft a player that (aside from 1 or 2 Japanese rookies a year) have no business be drafted in the waiver draft since they won't be eligible for our main team rosters.
NEW THOUGHT: It says it right there "Teams may choose from any available free agents who are eligible for a MIFHL active roster."
Players under the IP limit and who aren't on an active roster aren't eligible.
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Jan 30, 2014 16:46:05 GMT -5
Again, if you were to draft a prospect eligible player(as Darvish was last year) in the Waiver Draft, you would be forced to have him on your active roster at the start of the season. We do this because there are cases where a player may not be on a MLB roster when we start out Entry Draft but may sign before the Waiver Draft. For instance:
If last season, if the Entry Draft would have started and Darvish was not signed, he would have been ineligible to be drafted. But if he signed, say 4 days into our Entry Draft, he would still have been ineligible for our Entry Draft because we do not allow for the drafting of players who were not signed before the start of the Entry Draft. Conversely, Darvish would have been eligible in the Waiver Draft because he would have been signed prior to the start of the Waiver Draft. Make sense?
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Post by Fenway Faithful on Jan 30, 2014 16:47:20 GMT -5
but Darvish wouldn't have been eligible for the waiver draft because he wasn't eligible for our big team roster
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Jan 30, 2014 16:49:05 GMT -5
My only response to that is that we had some owners concerned about the league telling owners who should/could be on their rosters . I really don't see it as a big deal honestly. We certainly should have something in place to deal with those 2 or 3 Japanese rookie. Look at how valuable Darvish was last season. Can't just have a player like that up on the waiver wire to start the season
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Jan 30, 2014 16:49:42 GMT -5
How wasn't he?
1) He was property of the Rangers at the time of the Waiver and Entry Drafts. He was under the limit for rookies. What else would have made him ineligible?
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Jan 30, 2014 16:55:22 GMT -5
Where does it say that? Nowhere does it state a minimum amount of IPs or ABs to be eligible to be placed on an active roster. If that were the case, NO ROOKIE would be allowed on any active roster
Again, pretty sure you are mistaken as I do believe that Darvish was on Dwight's active roster from day 1 last year
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Post by Fenway Faithful on Jan 30, 2014 17:36:09 GMT -5
what I'm not mistake about is this: "Teams may choose from any available free agents who are eligible for a MIFHL active roster." *side note, need to fix that to be our baseball league and not the hockey league In our own rule book it says "Who are eligible for a active roster" So who is eligible for an active roster? - Well in our Farm Team rules we say "Only players on an active MLB roster or in the process of being demoted to the Farm Team are allowed on a fantasy team’s main roster." No foreign player is on an active roster nor is he being demoted. We also say: "If the player is demoted from his MLB team to the minors he must be either cut or demoted to the farm. That player needs to be on a FPBL active roster for 10 days in order to be farm eligible." No player under the thresholds are eligible to be on our team, they need to be cut or demoted. (If this wasn't the case, you wouldn't be in the business of having to police us when a players been demoted and still on our team ) So, our rules in their totality define a prospect, tell us when a prospect is eligible/ineligible for our main team and does NOT dictate that these rules do not apply in the offseason. Darvish was on his team last year, but all that means is we broke our own rules I think running the draft at the same time is really not a problem....prospects (under the thresholds) are for the entry draft and all other players are waiver draft eligible.
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Jan 30, 2014 17:59:39 GMT -5
Again I disagree Randy. It has broken down like this (since forever):
Waiver Draft : Every single player who is property of a MLB team is eligible. If that player is drafted, and does not start the season on a MLB roster, he must be cut. Nowhere in the rules is it prohibited to draft players who might not make a MLB roster. In fact, if you as an owner want to take a chance and draft a player in the Waiver Draft that might not make the opening day roster, that's your prerogative. This is how (as far as I can remember)we have always done it in both this league and our hockey league (thanks for pointing out the incorrect league name. Will get on changing that btw). There is/has been no threshold holding owners to who can be on an active roster, only one dictating who can be on a farm team. The only determining factor in who is active roster eligible is the simple act of a player being on a MLB active roster. Conceivably, if an owner wanted to roster a guy who pinch hit once a month and was constantly on an MLB active roster, he could. I don't think that would be smart, but it's not against any rule.
Entry DRAFT: To be Entry Draft eligible, a player must be property of a MLB team and under the rookie limit. He may be on an active or farm team roster. this is how I have/continue to understand the rules. I'll certainly wait for Jim to chime in, but this is how we have been doing it forever. If there is something about this you think wee should change we can certainly discuss it, but unless Jim tells me I'm totally crazy here I'm pretty sure this is how we've been doing it.
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Jan 30, 2014 18:01:28 GMT -5
Again, nowhere does any rule state that if you are under the threshold you have to be on a farm. The only time we police guys is when a MLB team has demoted a guy, but if that player is on an active MLB roster no one has ever forced him off a FPBL active roster
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Jan 30, 2014 18:03:32 GMT -5
Right. Any player who is on the waiver wire/is a FPBL free agent is draft eligible
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Post by 2008worldchamps on Jan 30, 2014 18:05:03 GMT -5
No. Darvish was a member of the Rangers when he was drafted and was still a member of the Rangers when he was on Dwight's team, making him 100% eligible
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Post by Fenway Faithful on Jan 30, 2014 18:08:25 GMT -5
okey doke. Not going to keep on going around this for the sake of going around it. Our rules clearly dictate what a prospect is...our rules clearly tell us who can/can't be on a main roster. So yea, I get what your saying, in that it's a gamble for me to draft a prospect, not knowing if he's going to make the main team out of spring training. BUT, in that regard then we should allow that prospect to be demoted since he would have been on our main roster for over 10 days....but I digress. Maybe my misunderstanding is in the idea that a drafted player in the waiver draft is, in my mind a member of my main roster and adheres to those rules. Same for the Entry draft. Maybe the rule needs to be reworded for simple folks like me, in that it says ""Teams may choose from any available free agents who are eligible for a MIFHL active roster." which isn't the same as "Any player who is on the waiver wire/is a FPBL free agent is draft eligible"...prospects are NOT eligible to be on our roster, unless they are on a big league (read: 25 man roster) This started because of the suggestion to run the draft concurrently...which seems pretty reasonable to me, but I'm just an owner who under thinks things...so I'll leave you to your LM duties. I've kinda checked out of this anyway...not going to go anywhere and really...not all that important.
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